Comments on: Response to Nice Girl’s “The Dark Side of Feminism” https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/ Personal blog for Christie Koehler. "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward." Sat, 31 Dec 2016 23:30:27 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.2.3 By: Failing at Geek Feminism | Geek Feminism Blog https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1570 Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:09:50 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1570 […] Christie Koehler on Geek Feminism: A Response to Nice Girl’s “The Dark Side of Geek Feminism” (also on Christie’s blog) […]

]]> By: Tim Chevalier https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1567 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 14:47:40 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1567 “Certification” implies some central authority that stamps people as geek feminist or not. I can say from someone’s writing that it does or doesn’t sound like they understand intersectionality, but I might be wrong. Nothing makes me more of an authority than the next person about that. Also, personally I would say that it’s hard for me to have a respectful discussion with someone who doesn’t grasp intersectionality (and doesn’t want to), but that doesn’t necessarily mean they are not a geek feminist; just that they and I can’t work together as geek feminists.

]]> By: Gervase Markham https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1566 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 12:34:33 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1566

For me, this kind of understanding, or at least the willingness to achieve it, is a prerequisite for engaging in feminist dialog in the first place.

There is no certification for being a geek feminist… except a requirement to understand intersectionality?

The above quote reminded me of Leslie Hawthorn’s take on the situation, which I happened to have read 5 minutes before.

]]> By: Tim Chevalier https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1561 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 00:33:14 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1561 Indeed, and I know I’ve had times when I wasn’t able to take criticism before, too (and will have them again!) It’s one thing to not take criticism well when it comes to one’s writing, or code, or artistic productions. It’s another thing to react badly to criticism about one’s oppressive behavior. In the latter case, I think it’s totally okay to say “Sorry, dialogue with you isn’t a thing that can happen right now”, which isn’t the same thing as writing the person off for life. Because people do change, it’s just really slow.

]]> By: Brenda https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1560 Thu, 02 Aug 2012 00:27:17 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1560 you’re right. I hope she listens eventually. Accepting criticism is hard for humans.

]]> By: Tim Chevalier https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1558 Wed, 01 Aug 2012 22:20:32 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1558 It’s not just that she “lacks vocabulary” but also that she appears to be unwilling to learn (e.g. getting defensive when called out on her racist use of the term “lynch mob”). I find it very difficult to have a dialogue with someone who is convinced that they’re right and is totally unwilling to learn or change.

]]> By: Brenda https://subfictional.com/response-to-nice-girls-the-dark-side-of-feminism/#comment-1556 Wed, 01 Aug 2012 21:42:51 +0000 https://subfictional.com/?p=35754#comment-1556 She doesn’t have the vocabulary for “feminist dialogue”, but her message is a good one. I have, in the past, been one of the people she’s describing as making her conference experience unpleasant. I have disliked other’s women’s decisions to wear low cut tops and short skirts, and I have written off women in such outfits as not being geeks. I needed calling on this behaviour.

I’m watching “geek feminist” people’s reactions to this post, and hoping we can take it on board, without getting super defensive, and not silence the next person who also wants to talk about these behaviours towards women at conferences.

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